1-2 NL ring - 10 players.

Scuba is in MP with Aces. Philly Mike raises in EP to 12. I smooth call. Tok raises to 50. Philly Mike calls. I call. Flop 8-7-7. Philly checks. I check. Tok bets 100. Philly folds, i reraise to 300. Tok folds, and claims to have Kings.

Question: Should I have re-raised pre-flop?

Im torn between whether I should have raised with my aces pre-flop. Here was my thinking at the time. If it were an average player to my left that just had re-raised Philly's initial bet, and my call, I would raise here. But this was tok. My read was Q-Q. But he could have had Jacks to Kings. If i re-raise here, Tok can fold Jacks - kings. trust me, he can. So i decided to get more money in on the flop. however, my big mistake was missing a bet on the flop. The check-raise sent red flags to Tok. he didnt think I had aces, but thought i had floppd a boat. :) damn check-raise!!! people always think you have monsters.

tok later told me he would have folded his kings if i did raise pre-flop. Its hard to believe, and I still wonder if i could have gotten it all in pre-flop, but ive seen tok lay down hands like this.

I was just thinking about posting this actually after a long conversation I had last night with Bruce, Philly and Tok about this very hand.

First off, Tok told me he doesn't fold his kings preflop, so I'm not sure what to believe. With that said, Tok's re-raise basically turned his hand face up, it's QQ-AA, and since you have AA it's QQ or KK, JJ isn't in there ever, and I literally mean ever, nor is AK.

If you come over the top preflop, I fully believe QQ gets mucked, but KK gets all the money in. I think the part you're missing is Philly in this pot, and the fact that all of you are $600 deep. When you let Philly into the pot, you're setting yourself up to either be outflopped, or even for him to take it away. Say the flop come J 8 5, and you check, Tok bets, and Philly 3 bets, what do you do? If you're going to be willing to just muck AA here I think your play is fine. You have to be willing to lay down big hands if you're going to play deceptively. I'm not saying you necessarily muck AA everytime in this spot, but if Philly comes over the top you have no clue where you're at, and Philly is a player who is capable of doing this with the nuts or with air. Also if the flop comes Q high or K high you need to be willing to just muck here too, as Tok's range is so polarized he might as well flip his cards over.

When they were talking about the hand, I instantly put you on AA to be honest, I just dont think you check raise that board with 88 or 87 since you know Tok has an overpair, though a smooth call is sometimes scarier than a raise. I think you're biggest problem in this hand is that you need to either lead the flop, or just check call, as Tok's more likely to fire a 2nd shell here on the turn. With your smooth call preflop you could have 109s, maybe even 56s, lots of hands where
Tok will fire the turn with an overpair.

I actually don't mind your play here, I think it doesn't necessarily maximize your equity but sometimes it's good to be deceptive. Risk vs. Reward, but I think as a general rule I like to get as much money in the middle with AA preflop as possible.

Yes Tok plays face up. So I was reading Queens specifically, with Kings a close second, and Jacks in there too. You cant say Jacks never, as he just over played jacks this way against Pez last week. But very unlikey i agree. I like the bet on the flop for my image especially. I love to stab at flops. Tok will come over the top if i had bet the flop. I shoot for not having to slow play, but agianst tok and philly, i need to switch gears. We were not all 600 deep there. But we were all over 200xBB. So a set is a danger, of course. But as you said, risk/reward.

Tok told me today if I raised, he would fold. But who knows.

Why do you ask me about jacks areaman? If i had jacks, i re-raise Philly, and Tok put in the third raise, I get away from the hand, unless i have enough odds to set mine.

Posted By: DodgingDonkeysYou cant say Jacks never, as he just over played jacks this way against Pez last week.

Well, the way Tok put it to me later (after Fish dealt the $900 2-outer), not really "overplay" as much as he says he tried to "outplay" me thinking that #1 I had KK and #2 I would fold KK in that spot. LOL, big pairs. Where's Fish's sunshine gimmick?

Pez, man - don't encourage the shit.