Posted By: areamanif youre going to get value out of TT+ here why arent you reraising preflop again?

furthermore...i find it interesting that you dont give these players credit to fold but then you try to get tricky with this hand.

im having a hard time figuring out how youre finding an inconsistancy in the following:
[span]"In one post, he says that the third players range includes pocket pairs under kings and an oesd, but then in another post, he says there is no way I can get any value from those holdings by raising. "[/span]

also, i take argument with this...
[span]"He isnt the target. the target is the initial raiser who has now C-bet, and i do HAVE POSITION ON. You'd be surprised how many time i get TT-QQ to stack off oop here with he way i palyed it. if they have aces, so be it."[/span]
and hes going to bet into you again on the turn...so why are you scaring him off his hand? if he isnt going to fold, why didnt you reraise preflop? whyd you wanna play a 5 way pot with kings when your target...or the person who you think is easily going to stack off, you could have iso'd?

and as for this..
[span]"But until then, your commetns about my bp cash game leaks dont mean too much when you cant win money at the game yourself. "[/span]
dont post hands then, obviously your bp 1/2 game is flawless, and doesnt need improvement. so you probably wouldnt want advice anyways.

there are varying opinions on this hand, and i welcome all of them. I am argueing with you cuz i don't agree with you. Im not ripping you for disagreeing, im ripping you cuz you made the statement that Im a bad player, and you could exploits my leaks. Bring it.

I should focus more on useful comments.

Posted By: Istillaintscared
I think raising the flop or smooth calling is not really a big deal you can do it either way. When you smooth call I presume the guy behind you smooth calls as well so you dont know much more about his hand. If you raise and you get smooth called behind you. You have to error on the side of being beat and try to keep the pot small as possible from that point forward. When your trapping someone the whole point is to build a pot. By raising the flop all that happend was you isolate yourself in a big pot with a guy that probly has you beat oop. Say you would have raised and they both folded then your trap was for nothing and you stand to lose alot more. The guy who smooth called played the hand terrible and basicly said "hey dude I either have a 9 88 or im being really fucking stubborn with tens, but youve got about 20% of my range beat lets do it in the but" I would hope a brick peeled off on the turn then hope the or puts one more bet in before I did anything but thats not the only way you can play the hand. However since thats the way you were intending from the outset you shoulda stuck with your plan and kept the trap on. If you smooth call and the original raiser shuts down and you put like a half pot bet in and then guy behind you moves in you can be pretty certain your cooked. Where I thinks stubborn overpair player would just smoothcall again or he would moved the flop. Where as a 9 would think you were commited and move in.

Dawg, You think raising or smooth calling are about the same here. I hear what you are saying about keeping the "trap" on. However, I am not trying to trap 2 players on this flop. I am trying to trap the OOP player, for a larger pot pre-flop, that I think has potential to spew chips. This flop isnt a good one to trap more than one player, especially if those players have position on me. The trap is still on by raising IMO, and it defines the third guys hand more clearly, as he has a raise/re-raise ahead of him. As you have noted yourself, I should have shut-it down once i was smooth called by the third player. It would have saved me the most money in this hand.

Posted By: DodgingDonkeys
I am so eager to hear your scenario of getting value from the third player by smooth-calling the flop instead of raising Areaman. I cant wait to hear it. So whats your line? You have smooth-called the OOP player's raise twice now, showing no strength in the hand. Please explain in detail how you proceed on the turn and river in this hand, just smooth calling the flop. I can't wait to hear how you suck all that value out of TT+ and oesd, without leaking chips to trips or better. Im grabbing my popcorn.

i think ive already stated this in this thread about 15 posts ago
perhaps you should try reading, what it is i am saying. it might actually click and make sense for you.

now im 100% certain you have a problem reading.

the first quoted post is if youre the original raiser...which i think is pretty clear.

and the second quoted post is if youre in your position...which i also think is pretty clear.

Posted By: areaman

Posted By: DodgingDonkeysI am so eager to hear your scenario of getting value from the third player by smooth-calling the flop instead of raising Areaman. I cant wait to hear it. So whats your line? You have smooth-called the OOP player's raise twice now, showing no strength in the hand. Please explain in detail how you proceed on the turn and river in this hand, just smooth calling the flop. I can't wait to hear how you suck all that value out of TT+ and oesd, without leaking chips to trips or better. Im grabbing my popcorn.

someone page me when they can make sense of this post

who raised twice now? do you mean bet? what the fuck are you even talking about?

as for the turn, if the original raiser fires twice, i probably call an 80 dollar bullet and see what the guy does behind me again. its still a step up over what youve done, because youve gotten more value out of TT+ and youve saved yourself a river call against a hand thats beating you.

Lol. Nitpick now between the terms raise and bet. you obviously know wtf i meant, but are now "flaming" this thread, with more of your confusion. But now you are an internet expert, and have spent many hours reading their forums, so you have earned your hand analysis snob card. Clearly, you are a far superior player than myself Areaman. It is clearly better to smooth-call the flop. {sarcasm} And call a third bullet with a player calling behind for 80 dollars on the turn, and still have no f-ing clue where you stand in the hand. That is CLEARLY the best appraoch to this hand. you are a master sir. I bow down to thee. {extreme sarcasm}

PS - Who the fuck uses pagers anymore?

PPS - you have posted many hand histories on this forum that clearly demonstrate your own leaks at this game, and I have done nothing but analyze them impartially. I post one that I admitted showed my own bad play, and you nitpick it to death, and call me bad and exploitable. I am certainly unafraid to sit at a table with you sasquatch, unless it was feeding time. You keep busting your nickel/dime stakes online, wait, do you even beat that game i hope? Otherwise there would be no game you can beat right? you cant beat the freeroll even.